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necessarian) wrote2018-01-01 07:25 pm
necessarian) wrote2018-01-01 07:25 pm
Entry tags:
[Archiving] Thoughts on concrit and fanfic vs fanart
Originally posted: 30.8.'16
a preface to this post: i am about to discuss some questions for which there are no easy answers. please don’t get the impression that i have a firm opinion on any of this, because i don’t. i’m still working it out myself.
i’m inspired to write by a conversation between my friends @larkwords and @crollalanzaa on twitter the other day, and i guess a continual open discussion we’ve been having about the differences between fanfic and fanart communities. but in this particular thread, the point was made about those posts that are like “when you find the perfect fic but it has your notp,” and how that would read if it was flipped to be about art.
think: what in your reaction differs when you read: “when you find the perfect drawing but it’s of your notp” ?
there have been a lot of posts pointing out, rightly, how hurtful it is to artists to read comments on their art that say “i really like this, even though i hate the ship.” in the same way that a fic will focus on a relationship, so too can art. this happens with fic too—i know plenty of people who’ve had comments like “your writing is good, but i hate what you did with the plot!” in both cases, the creator’s reaction will be along the lines of, buddy, no-one asked you. because the choice of pairing and the structure of a plot are both integral to the works themselves.
here’s where the difference comes in: fanfiction communities have a history and tradition of constructive criticism. i got an interesting comment today that i suppose you could call concrit; the commenter highlighted an aspect they didn’t entirely like, and explained why. i don’t mind getting comments like that, because (a) they have taken the time to open a dialogue with their own considered points and (b) it gives me an opportunity to write an essay in response. but from what i’ve seen of fanart communities on tumblr and my own very limited experience as a fanartist (yes, i was a deviantart teenager once) there isn’t really a culture of concrit, rather of nurturing—or, straight up criticism, which i’ve seen delivered in various nasty ways over the years and is really not something i’m an expert on so i’ll leave this point there. (remember what i said about questions with no easy answers?)
before i get back to the original point, there is one other key difference between fanart and fanfiction communities: social acceptability. i still draw sometimes, although you wouldn’t know it, because this is my sideblog and i hide all my writing here. i’m happy for IRL friends to see my fanart, but if they saw my fanfiction i would basically expire from the embarrassment. i think a lot about why this is, and i don’t really have an answer. the other point is that fanart is more commercial, with artists selling their work as a matter of routine. btw, i think this is great! but it’s something that would never get off the ground in fanfiction communities. i’ve seen writers who offer commissions, but are seldom taken up on the offer. and like no-one i know uses that amazon thing where you can sell your fic.
i’m not here to talk about why the differences arise between these two communities, though. i think, in the end, the answer i can settle on is that fic and art are just too different to compare. it’s not the same medium, so we shouldn’t apply the same standards. but what about the question i posed at the beginning, what about talking about things we don’t like? should we change the way we do this depending on whether we’re critiquing fic or art?
something i’ve noticed about fic is that there are a few things that we all agree on as bad writing. in art communities, there doesn’t seem to be the same rhetoric—we know that you shouldn’t overuse the smudge tool or shade in black, but there’s never anything like “tfw you find a great artist but they overuse the smudge tool.” because, we accept that it’s harmful for artists to see that in a way that isn’t framed as constructive encouragement to improve! so what’s the difference with fic? “tfw you find a great fic of your otp but there are way too many adverbs.” hmm. this is why there are writing advice posts—and all too often i’ve seen writing advice get dismissed as unnecessarily critical, even if it’s not targeted at anyone but presented generally. i wonder why that is? are we forgetting the constructive nature of communal critique?
i’m going to present a corollary, though: this sort of critique is not the same as saying “i don’t like the subject matter.” which, let’s be honest, whether it’s fic or art, it’s not nice to straight up tell a creator you don’t like their subject matter. like, whatever, don’t tell me if i’m writing your notp! but there is a difference between saying generally “tfw you find a great fic but it’s your notp” and saying specifically “i like x’s writing but i hate this ship.” there is a difference between saying generally “tfw you find some really great art but it’s of your notp” and saying specifically “i like x’s art but i hate this ship.” the difference is that the creator sees the second kind of rhetoric, and that’s damaging. whether it’s in a comment on a fic or in the tags on an artwork, it’s damaging to the creator. re-evaluate this instinct.
there is also the argument to be made that the creator will see the first kind of rhetoric and could think it’s about them—again, no easy answers, but i tend to think there’s nothing inherently wrong with expressing a preference. we all have things we don’t like. it’s okay to talk about that. then: does that necessarily need to be tied back to the experience of finding media you like with an aspect you dislike? no, not necessarily, but it is going to be something people experience, and i don’t think we should stop talking about the fact that we experience it. that’s part of the nature of fandom. as creators we must be aware that when we make something, there will be people who dislike it on a purely subjective level, and… it’s just preference. preference is inevitable, and there shouldn’t be anything wrong with expressing it.
so here’s the take-away message of this admittedly disordered post: constructive criticism delivered in a communal environment is integral to the fandom tradition of learning from one another and sharing experiences. people will like different things, and that’s fine. but telling a creator you like their craft but hate their content is not. that’s just being rude.
i’m inspired to write by a conversation between my friends @larkwords and @crollalanzaa on twitter the other day, and i guess a continual open discussion we’ve been having about the differences between fanfic and fanart communities. but in this particular thread, the point was made about those posts that are like “when you find the perfect fic but it has your notp,” and how that would read if it was flipped to be about art.
think: what in your reaction differs when you read: “when you find the perfect drawing but it’s of your notp” ?
there have been a lot of posts pointing out, rightly, how hurtful it is to artists to read comments on their art that say “i really like this, even though i hate the ship.” in the same way that a fic will focus on a relationship, so too can art. this happens with fic too—i know plenty of people who’ve had comments like “your writing is good, but i hate what you did with the plot!” in both cases, the creator’s reaction will be along the lines of, buddy, no-one asked you. because the choice of pairing and the structure of a plot are both integral to the works themselves.
here’s where the difference comes in: fanfiction communities have a history and tradition of constructive criticism. i got an interesting comment today that i suppose you could call concrit; the commenter highlighted an aspect they didn’t entirely like, and explained why. i don’t mind getting comments like that, because (a) they have taken the time to open a dialogue with their own considered points and (b) it gives me an opportunity to write an essay in response. but from what i’ve seen of fanart communities on tumblr and my own very limited experience as a fanartist (yes, i was a deviantart teenager once) there isn’t really a culture of concrit, rather of nurturing—or, straight up criticism, which i’ve seen delivered in various nasty ways over the years and is really not something i’m an expert on so i’ll leave this point there. (remember what i said about questions with no easy answers?)
before i get back to the original point, there is one other key difference between fanart and fanfiction communities: social acceptability. i still draw sometimes, although you wouldn’t know it, because this is my sideblog and i hide all my writing here. i’m happy for IRL friends to see my fanart, but if they saw my fanfiction i would basically expire from the embarrassment. i think a lot about why this is, and i don’t really have an answer. the other point is that fanart is more commercial, with artists selling their work as a matter of routine. btw, i think this is great! but it’s something that would never get off the ground in fanfiction communities. i’ve seen writers who offer commissions, but are seldom taken up on the offer. and like no-one i know uses that amazon thing where you can sell your fic.
i’m not here to talk about why the differences arise between these two communities, though. i think, in the end, the answer i can settle on is that fic and art are just too different to compare. it’s not the same medium, so we shouldn’t apply the same standards. but what about the question i posed at the beginning, what about talking about things we don’t like? should we change the way we do this depending on whether we’re critiquing fic or art?
something i’ve noticed about fic is that there are a few things that we all agree on as bad writing. in art communities, there doesn’t seem to be the same rhetoric—we know that you shouldn’t overuse the smudge tool or shade in black, but there’s never anything like “tfw you find a great artist but they overuse the smudge tool.” because, we accept that it’s harmful for artists to see that in a way that isn’t framed as constructive encouragement to improve! so what’s the difference with fic? “tfw you find a great fic of your otp but there are way too many adverbs.” hmm. this is why there are writing advice posts—and all too often i’ve seen writing advice get dismissed as unnecessarily critical, even if it’s not targeted at anyone but presented generally. i wonder why that is? are we forgetting the constructive nature of communal critique?
i’m going to present a corollary, though: this sort of critique is not the same as saying “i don’t like the subject matter.” which, let’s be honest, whether it’s fic or art, it’s not nice to straight up tell a creator you don’t like their subject matter. like, whatever, don’t tell me if i’m writing your notp! but there is a difference between saying generally “tfw you find a great fic but it’s your notp” and saying specifically “i like x’s writing but i hate this ship.” there is a difference between saying generally “tfw you find some really great art but it’s of your notp” and saying specifically “i like x’s art but i hate this ship.” the difference is that the creator sees the second kind of rhetoric, and that’s damaging. whether it’s in a comment on a fic or in the tags on an artwork, it’s damaging to the creator. re-evaluate this instinct.
there is also the argument to be made that the creator will see the first kind of rhetoric and could think it’s about them—again, no easy answers, but i tend to think there’s nothing inherently wrong with expressing a preference. we all have things we don’t like. it’s okay to talk about that. then: does that necessarily need to be tied back to the experience of finding media you like with an aspect you dislike? no, not necessarily, but it is going to be something people experience, and i don’t think we should stop talking about the fact that we experience it. that’s part of the nature of fandom. as creators we must be aware that when we make something, there will be people who dislike it on a purely subjective level, and… it’s just preference. preference is inevitable, and there shouldn’t be anything wrong with expressing it.
so here’s the take-away message of this admittedly disordered post: constructive criticism delivered in a communal environment is integral to the fandom tradition of learning from one another and sharing experiences. people will like different things, and that’s fine. but telling a creator you like their craft but hate their content is not. that’s just being rude.